2010 MARDAVE RULES AT HRCCC

[Wacker1]

Hi all,

As a New Year & New Championship is almost upon us now, Dale(HRCCC Chairman)has asked me to see if anyone would like some Amendments/Changes made to the Clubs Mardave Rules for the 2010 Season.

Over the last 12 Months, there have been some vast Improvements on the Technical side of RC Racing!

........these include :

1 - Improved 'Sensored' Brushless Systems

2 - 1s Lipo Packs

WOULD any Mardave Racers like these to be Included in the 2010 Rules?

Many would agree, that the Advancements above have Improved RC Racing dramatically.i.e Sensored Brushless Systems being more Efficient, Less Maintenance & giving Equal Performance.
Only needing 1x 1s Lipo Pack(not 2 or 3 like NiMh), as well as NO Discharging & Equalizing for Maximum Power- Just Charge & Race! Surely a huge Positive!

Over the last Month, there have been a couple of Racers Testing the 1s Lipo/13.5T Brushless Motor against the Regular NiMh/27T Brushed G2 Motor Cars, & have found them to be Equal on Speed til around the 3 Minute mark.........this is when the Regular Brushed G2 Motor starts to drop-off on Performance(if they have any to begin with) & the 13.5T Brushless retains its Speed for the remainder of the Race! So going BRUSHLESS is definately something to seriously consider!

We've all seen that these have Improved all of the other Classes, by making it more down to Driver Skill & Car Set-up, rather than who has the 'Punchiest' Batteries & 'Fastest' Motor on the day!

Any other Ideas on changes you'd like to see in the Rules, feel free to express your View

[stox217]

What speedo's will be alowed?
What 13.5 motor's will be alowed?
Also Could we still use nimh g2's in with this class? (As some race at other venue's ect)
So the ideal situation
would be to have two championships
A 1c lipo 13.5
And the 4cell G2
So then it rules out all arguments! But still lets other people from other clubs to race against other spec car's. (Sorry if i am making it complex)
Cheers

[Wacker1]

The idea is NOT to make the Mardave Class Complex - just simple straight forward, Reliable Racing, on a Level playing field!


Possible New Additions to the current Rules, that we're talking about :

1 - Any Brushless 'Sensored' Speed Control that has REVERSE

2 - Any 13.5T Brushless Motor

3 - Any 1s Lipo Pack(as NiMh Cells are becoming increasingly more difficult to get hold of from Shops these days)

4 - NiMh/27T Brushed Mardave G2 Motor & 1s Lipo/13.5T Brushless Motor = ONE CLASS/ONE CHAMPIONSHIP

As mentioned before, Performance is very similar between the TWO Configurations, so there would be absolutely No Point in making 2 Classes.......all that would do is dilute the Numbers evenmore-so!

Many Racers have left the Mardave Class, since the GP, due to the lack of Performance & Unreliablity of the Brushed G2 Motors...........this idea is to INCREASE the Numbers again!

The idea is to keep it as One Class(like what happened with 27T Brushed, when the 13.5T Brushless Technology first came out for Touring Cars), so eventually everyone would make the Transition to the Brushless Technology, which would then bring back the Numbers.

If HRCCC sets the Benchmark, with Revised Rules, I'm sure that other Clubs will eventually follow, when they see how much better it is, giving Close Competitive Racing again

Imagine how great the 2010 MARDAVE GP would be, if everyone was running a 1s Lipo/13.5T Brushless Motor.........everyone would have exactly the same Speed, so it would be just down to Driver Skill! SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT?

[Dale]

Thanks for doing this Dean and laying it out so clearly.

I am contacting Chris Wilkinson so he can have input on this also.

Please can we ensure this is a serious debate and no personal comments etc please? I want this forum link to be here for members to discuss this and be included. We have seen reducing Mardave numbers and I want to reverse this so this is YOUR chance to have a say in the future of the class.

Regards Dale

[Richie]

I have been taking notice of this new brushless arrangement for the last few weeks, looks good to me, again I agree the speed appears comparible with the G2 motors, I was considering trialing the system next year if allowed, but amending the rules as displayed would be great.

My only negative on this is the cost which is quite expensive on the sensored system as opposed to the sensorless system. People might ask if they could be allowed to run a sensorless system. Does anyone know if this has been considered or tried ?, will it work ?, is it faster or slower than the sensored motor ?. I'm obviously referring to the 13.5t brushless sensorless motor system here.

Either way yes please from me !

[Wacker1]

Richie,

If you work out the Cost Comparison between a 'Brushed' & a 'Brushless Set-up', there is'nt a massive Price difference!

For example :

BRUSHED SET-UP
Novak XRS Speed Control - £49.99
Mardave G2 Motor - £8.95(x12-One Per Month)

What you have to remember is though, most Racers go through a G2 Motor Per Month..............so in Total, for a 12Months Racing, it would work out at £157.39

Whereas, a

'SENSORED' BRUSHLESS SET-UP(Example)
LRP A.I Brushless Reverse Speed Control - £65.99
LRP Eraser/Nosram Dragon 13.5T Motor - £39.99

The Total Cost of this System would be £105.98

Even if you went for a Higher end 'Sensored' Brushless Speedo/Motor Combo, you'd only be slightly more Money than a 'Brushed' Set-up for 12 Months!
Its also just a one-off outlay of Cash, for a Brushless System.........not having to Buy a Brushed Motor Per Month for the rest of your Life!

As for 'Sensorless' Systems, they've proved to be abit more Unreliable/tempremental, as well as having NO smoothness or feeling in the Drive of your Car(almost like a Lightswitch-On or Off). Most of the Motors tend to be a 'Sealed' Unit as well, which is no good for Maintainance.....for example, if the Bearings seized up(due to not being able to get in there to Clean/Oil them), you'd have to fork out another £30-£40 for a New Motor!
I dont know if they even Make a 13.5T Sensorless Motor either

I hope this has helped you mate

[Richie]

Very informative Thanks Dean

I do keep forgetting just how much I have spent on Mardave motors in the last 3 months, I think I have bought something like 8 in total. Might actually be even more

Because your running a single cell lipo, I can't imagine the motor ever wearing out, apart from the bearings and I think their replaceable.

In the long term its a no brainer. I was thinking Becky has a speed Passion brushless sensored speedo in a touring car in the loft, its a V1.1 Grand Tourismo, so all I presume I need is the 13.5t motor, I'll checkout the LRP Eraser as you suggest, I assume theres a degree of compatibility between speed controllers.

Richard

[Wacker1]

As long as the Brushless Speed Control is of a 'Sensored' Design, any Manufacturer of 13.5T Motor will be Compatiable with it!

I only gave the LRP Eraser/Nosram Dragon 13.5T Motors as an Example.......other Makes/Models are also suitable

The Latest ones on the Market to look out for, are :

GM Pro Star Wind
Speed Passion V3.0
LRP X12 Stock Spec
Nosram Pure Evo
Novak Ballistic

Due to the 1s Lipo Packs being 3.7v, they will probably need a 1s Step-Up Module(Novak Smart Boost is a Popular choice).

.......other than that, its just Charge them up & Race!

[Richie]

You should write a book with your knowledge

Thanks Dean

[Dale]

Hi Guys,

One thing we might have to consider is a different 25t for Mardave. Do you know of any other options for this?

HPI do a 27t which is being considered for RTR Quicksliver class, but maybe this is something we need to look at also, as from people's feedback these G2's we are getting are not lasting long....

Regards Dale

[Richie]

Hi Dale

If I'm interpreting you correctly, your considering banning the use of a Mardave G2 motor in a Mardave and replacing with an alternative higher turn 27turn motor. I'm struggling with logic here, that would be a slower unit !

I think the feedback your referring equally applies to all silvercan motors, over the years of racing them, when Mardave used the 540SH (27t G2), they were no better than the current G2, maybe slightly worse. I think you need to consider that nearly everyone uses Mardave G2's so its not surprising the complaints are about that motor with the exception of the 540sh's used in the RTR class and I think Justin recently posted a note saying how they were blowing up.

Don't forget you hold the Mardave National, wouldn't that be a little bizarre.

If you want a 27turn motor then fit a rebuildable stock, both rebecca and myself ran last season with same motor, no complaints, no problems, robust and cheap but I've been there and got the tee shirt. I think you need to retain a cost effective entry level option on the motors which is widely available and cheap, the current mardave G2 does that and so frankly I'm not convinced this a good idea, sorry to disagree. Richard

[stox217]

Some other circuit clubs that run mardaves use hpi saturn 20's ?
Could be worth a shot?

[Richie]

Presumably their 20 turn nick

[stox217]

yep 20turn

[lapster]

magine how great the 2010 MARDAVE GP would be, if everyone was running a 1s Lipo/13.5T Brushless Motor.........everyone would have exactly the same Speed, so it would be just down to Driver Skill! SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT?

that sounds a great idea.