Continued growth of club class Pan cars (1/12)

[blueskieshlg]

HI all
Now I know this is not a new topic but after watching the pan cars (1/12) heats on Saturday and observing the great efforts of a young lady who continued to race under great pressure. I thick it might be time to introduce some new rules. Now that the numbers of club class drivers has kind of found its level (9 to 12). I see no point of drivers with far more experience and ability using motors that are far more powerful than any one else except self gratification at the expense of the other drivers , I feel the actions of the few will spoil the fun for the rest. I don’t know of any rule that state you can only use 27T,19T or 10.5 brushless motors in club class but I am sure this one change would make the majority of the club class drivers a lot more happier and would help to continue the growth of new driver taking part .

[WARRENRYAN]

Hello all .I have not been racing a pan car for very long. And through my learning time i have gone through many parts and loads of money.
Coming from a mardave it is a big differance in power and handling. The young lady who races every week in pan car i will most deferentially hold my hat of to her. I think the club should have a 27 turn pan car heat which i think will give you that speed to know the car and the handling. Fast drivers should allow for slower drivers. YOU HAVE LEARNT TO DRIVE AROUND CORNERS SO LEARN TO DRIVE AROUND SLOWER DRIVERS? in my time of driving a pan i have found that not being a thumb monkey (means full speed all the time) i have started to drive better and make it through the race and stay in the middle of the race grid. Can i allso say if you are new to this sport its not nice hearing verbal abuse at slower drivers. I find it very intimidating. So where do you go from here? .....I THINK WE SHOULD
1.. have a 27t heat.
2..have support and help for any one coming into pan.
3.. have a sub committee for the pan car heat.
Sorry if this seems so harsh

[Dale]

Hi Guys,

A great deal of discussion went into the 1/12th at the start of the year and we tried to introduce measures to allow for beginners and mod guys/gals alike to race.

Charlotte is my daughter and a few weeks ago she found it very difficult to accept cars a great deal quicker in her races etc, however after a chat she has tried to let them buy, lets say a little more courteously now!!! As a result she hit 20 laps for the first time last week and left the club feeling like she had won the Worlds!!

I think due to the numbers of 1/12th, if we split them into a 27t heat and open for example, this would result in small heats and less attraction. If the numbers increase and their is a demand for say 6 drivers to run a 27t class, then I would be prepared to look at this again for us all.

I do take on board your comments and I would suggest others to offer their thought's to ensure we maintain member ideas being supported and discussed.

Regards

Dale

[Hail Ming]

Totally agree...where's the satisfaction or sense of fair play in running a 6.5T brushless against a 27T brushed car? Its like racing a Ferrari against a Ford Transit...not really much point.

Not trying to spoil anyone's fun, but running modified and stock together is a recipe for disaster. Its either one or the other...not fussed which, but the Committee needs to decide before we end up having a 'Modified Mardave' debate all over again ...how boring would that be?

On a separate but related point...the use of bad language and general unsportsmanly conduct on the rostrum is inappropriate; especially in front of children. I think there needs to be a gentle reminder of acceptable behaviour.

[Dale]

HI Ming (not sure who you are),

Any swearing or ungentlemanly behavour would need to be reported to either Roger or myself for appropriate action. Put simply we will not tollerate such behaviour and members will be dealt with correctly.

Not aware of a 6.5t being used - who was it?

My understanding is that this class has a 10.5t limit.

Thanks

Dale

[blueskieshlg]

Hi all

Now I am really pleased to see that I am not alone with my thoughts.

Dale, majority of people are running 27,19t/10.5 motors and having really good fun, but there are still a few people that find the need to impress by using quicker motors, but having said this I don’t think there any rules that say you cannot .

Now wouldn’t it be nice if we could just make a gentlemen (gentlewomen’s) agreement without making lots of fuss and changing rules and suchlike, and just agree to put a maximum motor sizes of 19T/10.5 in the clubman class. Now if interest in running smaller wind motors and the number of drivers wishing to do so increase we could possibly run a modified heat.

[Dale]

Hi Guys,

To clarify, the 1/12th heat is run for 5 mins and has a motor limit of 19t or 10.5t brushless. Any motors below this are not allowed, so if you feel someone is running one, please let us know and they will loose their heat time and will be asked to change motors.

Regards

Dale

[leon]

Well if the yellow car and the blue car were running 19t/10.5 last saturday in 1/12 i would like to know who make's said motor as i would like one myself. Srap fins to there bodyshells and you could have mistaken them for Exercet missiles!

A shame for both parties as they spent there race trying to get passed us and we spent the race race trying to keep out of there way. Mixing modified with us mere mortals doesnt work im afraid.

[Wacker2]

This is Jon Seals!

Where do I begin???

Having read the posts recently submitted by some of the members at the club regarding the 1/12th racing, I am quite frankly pi**'ed off with all the negative comments being directed at both dean and myself.

So I feel its about time we set a few things straight!

Firstly, some of the posts make comment to a "Young Lady" - guys we all know her name is Charlotte so have a little respect and call her by her name!

"Somebody" had the cheak to say that we were running modified motors for "Self Gratification" - we dont need to race modified motors for that... we only need to look at the race results from the last 7/8 weeks when we were racing 10.5 turn brushless for that! Whilst on the subject people have complained about us running a 6.5 turn brushless motor last week - you're all obviously forgetting that we have run modified motors for ONE week only, up to now we have been running a 10.5 turn brushless motor and again I would urge you to look at the race results for those weeks to see how much infront of everybody else we have been with the same equipment. Rather than using last weeks events as an excuse for you're lack of competitiveness to make yourself feel better, try spending abit more time on your cars in preperation for saturdays racing and try to improve your own driving skills.

Also in response to comments people have made regarding 27t motors... I've got to say I've no idea what you are talking about as this (as far as I am aware) has always been a 19T/10.5T Pro-stock class. If you chose to run a slower motor than recommended then you must be prepared to be alot slower than the other drivers. Also whilst we're on that subject ,if you feel you cant handle the speed of a 19/10.5 turn motor then quite frankly you shouldn't be racing 1/12th!!! 1/12th racing is at the peak of precision racing... not for beginners! I challenge you to find a 27turn 1/12th race in any of the regional or national classes - I guarantee that you wont be able to because it doesn't exist - theres a reason for that! Now this isn't meant to say that certain types of drivers should be penalised and restricted to what class of racing they take part in, but thats exactly what you guys are saying about me and dean! (something for you to be thinking about!!!)

And for the person who made reference to the Yellow and Blue car.. it was Jon Seals & Dean Gibbs, pass on any problems you have direct to us and dont pretent that you dont know who it was! Again, we have names too so have a little respect and use them when talking about us!

This one is meant for Dale... You made the following statement in one of your posts: "I think due to the numbers of 1/12th, if we split them into a 27t heat and open for example, this would result in small heats and less attraction." I'm confused... how appealling do you think it looks when a potential 1/12th racer watches one of our current 1/12th races with a stupid amount of cars in, being smashed to high heaven??? the state of the 1/12th race at the moment is a disaster and something needs to change.

As far as the changes that need to happen, many people claim that they want seperate heats - I have asked for seperate heats every week for the past 5/6 weeks but have been turned down by Roger every week due to not being enough people to split them. Plus being told that there is not enough time??? last week I was told there was not enough time to split the 1/12th finals into 2 heats - but they had time to spend 30 mins or so to have a mothers meeting in the middle of the track before the finals began!!! If you guys want to split the 1/12th race into 2 heats then you need to voice this to Roger at the beginning of your racing on a saturday - he cant ignore the request if we all want it!!! Think back to the odd week when we were graced with 2 seperate heats and final... I think you'll agree it was so much better racing, far more enjoyable, far more entertaining for the spectators.

Warren I think it was you that made the following outrageous statement: YOU HAVE LEARNT TO DRIVE AROUND CORNERS SO LEARN TO DRIVE AROUND SLOWER DRIVERS? quite frankly it is the slower drivers responsibility to move out the way if there are faster cars on the track - thats rule 1 of any racing. I dont know how many times Roger has emphasised this over the microphone over the years that we've all been racing... maybe you should listen to him every now and then, he speaks the truth!!!

A few more bits I would like to agree with:
- A shame for both parties as they spent there race trying to get passed us and we spent the race race trying to keep out of there way. Mixing modified with us mere mortals doesnt work im afraid.
- recipe for disaster

From what Dale said about alot of discussion being had over 1/12th racing at the beginning of the year - I dont want to come across hypicritical or anything because I know I was not at any of the commitee meetings, but I was told either last week or the week before by Roger that 1/12th was an unsupported class?! In his exact words "that'll teach you for racing an unsupported class"!

Also Dale regarding people not aloud to run 6.5 turn brushless modified motors - you make threats about people having their results removed or not counting at all. Last week, quite CLEARLY both myself and Dean were running Modified motors but yet you said nothing. Also, we made it very, very clear to Roger at the beginning of the day that we were going to be running modified motors and yet he booked us in. Regarding people having results and times not counted... Craig Nutting ran a modified motor in his 1/12th car on week 5 of the championship and was awarded 2nd place... and still got his 99 points!!! I would just like to also add that that week I beat Craig with my 10.5 turn brushless car, and so again to people with a grudge I would say that I have proven that I dont need to run a modified motor for self gratification or to impress anybody!!!

I would just like to add a comment about Charlotte - she has improved amazingly as she has been driving over the years and for her age she really has fantastic driving skills and abillity and definately one to watch for the future, but I still cant help but feel that she does not yet have the high racing abillity and precision skills to be racing such a class. Seeing as everybody is having the chance to voice their concerns and thoughts, I would like to take this opertunity to make it clear that I think that certain drivers (I wont name and shame but you probably know who you are) currently attempting to race 1/12th racing, should perhaps go back to racing Mardave, or possible this new brushless modified Mardave craze that offers higher speeds to improve their driving abillity and skills before rejoining the 1/12th world in later seasons. Just my opinion and not in any way to have a go at anybody or make enemies!

I appreciate you taking the time to read this lenghy post, and invite you all to make comments in response to it.

Thanks again, Jon!

p.s, You'll all be releived to know that I will not be racing this weekend as I have work commitments, but be warned... I will be back! lol

[IBEXMotorsport]

Right then, where to start........

Point 1

"Quote" (Jon Seals)
And for the person who made reference to the Yellow and Blue car.. it was Jon Seals & Dean Gibbs, pass on any problems you have direct to us and don’t pretend that you don’t know who it was! Again, we have names too so have a little respect and use them when talking about us
"unquote"

I seam to recall YOU JON, not having a clue who i was the other week when i intentionally & viscously "Harpooned" you when you where have your little tantrum on the rostrum (iirc, it was just after you swore loudly at a marshal, because YOU crashed) I seem to recall the statement along the lines of:- "who's that F***ing red car" For your information, on the weeks I have been racing 1/12th, I tend to be placed 3-4th Overall......

My point, YOU do not know your competitors, so don't have a pop when others do not know you.

Point 2

"Quote" (Jon Seals)
Quite frankly it is the slower drivers responsibility to move out the way if there are faster cars on the track - thats rule 1 of any racing
“unquote”

I just wish you would get your facts right here before making such statements.
BRISCA F1 & F2 stockcars are not required to move out of the way for faster, lapping cars
NASCAR drivers are not required to jump out of the way of faster, lapping cars.

In both of these instances, The faster car, regardless of lap, is required to find away past themselves.

I will not go on any more, but please, if you are going to post on the forum again, Pease please please, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.

[Wacker2]

OK... I guess point taken about the nascar and stock car thing but those 2 types of racing tend to only race in circles (as far as I'm aware, I'm obviously not an expert on this as you claim to be) but you have highlighted just 2 types of racing out of ALL the hundreds of different motor racing there is out there. My comments relating to Rule 1 of any racing was aimed at RC racing, which, if you havent noticed is what we are racing and indeed what this forum is all about - I would suggest that if you want to talk about nascar and stock cars then you go and find a forum that deals with such racing!!! All this is irrelevant as we are racing RC cars and the rules of racing RC cars is that slower drivers move off the racing line and allow faster drivers through without collision. Theres no need for you to come on here and try and be a smart arse just to try and impress!!!

As far as your name is concerned... I STILL dont know who you are??? I remember the week in question, I remember the incident in question, and you were bang out of order in that race. I had overtaken you cleanly on the inside of the corner (nearest to the fire exit doors near the pits) and you retaliated by blatently taking me out and putting me on my roof - "Harpooning" is a great word to use!!! It was then I started to have a tantrum because you had just ruined my race for no reason, and yes I did yell "who the F*** is that red car so that I could identify you as a person and hurl my abuse at you directly!!! The fact that you have just admitted to intentially Harpooning me on the track gives all of you other 1/12 drivers a bad name - alot of you claim that you move out of the way and let faster drivers through but the truth of the matter is you make no effort at all because, as warren stated in his post, you beleive it is our responsibillity to drive around you! at this point I would urge you to read throught the first paragraph of this post again, and realise that it is not!!! please improve your driving skills

[Wacker2]

ahhh, i've just seen your name at the bottom of your post 'Richard Pacey'... quite frankly a driver with your experience should know better and I think its discraceful that you openly admit to taking somebody out as it does not set a good example for the other none experienced racers.

And in that race there were 2 cars of a very simular colour, one was a dark orange and one was a bright red, and at speed on the race track when I'm concerntrating on my own car and not studying others, they look very simular! Had I have know it was you I would have had a word with you after the race and complained to Roger about your standard of driving.

thanks again for the reply but next time try to talk about something constructive in 1/12th racing rather than trying to voice your obvious grudge against me!

Jon Seals

[Hail Ming]

A big thank you to everyone racing the 1/12th scale pan car class today...it was close, exciting and good natured...the way racing should be. A particular mention for Charlotte who was running brilliantly throughout the heats and finals with her new motor. Let's have more of the same next week folks...

[Dale]

Well well well.......

OK first things first guys, the whole venting frustrations thing is not what I want to encourage on the forums. Quoting this and quoting that is not what I want to see in the future and whilst we all get involved in our hobby, first and foremost we must respect our fellow members.

Now I want to have a little say in this as I do not want to give the impression that I have tried to upset anyone in previous comments. Any remarks made on this from me will always have the best interests of the members at heart and in know way do I have 'issues' with either Jon or Dean.

I will say Jon that both you and Dean are very quick drivers and I am sure that this season has been a little frustrating for you as the top end drivers have not supported this class. I can confirm that the club is supportive of the 1/12th class and we want this to grow to ensure more competition is attracted.

As you all know I have a vested interest in 1/12th with Charlotte and I do want to say thank you for the supportive comments that have been made about her. I will admit I was aprehensive when she made it clear this is what she wanted to race in, but the last couple of weeks have even surprised me with her attaining nearly 21 laps today! Eric very kindly offered a 19t motor to try and just as I was going to turn down the high point for her I stopped myself and gave her a chance. Well to say that I was proud of her would be an understatement, although having said that I am very mindful of the speed of this class and want to ensure she is getting out of the way of quicker drivers etc. I am very aware that she will frustrate people sometimes as she is not at the high standard of some in this class, but she is a little girl of 10 years old and unfortunately for you guys she has a very keen sense of her competitive spirrit!! lol

Anyway back off Charlotte for a minute and back to some of the raised issues:

1. I do feel that the 19t 10.5 limit is a good thing as the difference in speed makes it an issue. I don't believe for one minute Jon and Dean did this to ensure some kind of competitve edge, I feel they just wanted to push themselves and their cars to see what it was like which I can understand. However, unfortunately with current numbers we have one heat of 1/12th and the standard varies and this means that this is very difficult and will always cause friction with in races.

2. To clarify, if a faster car is qualifying you give room, leave the racing line, and allow them to continue. As far as I am aware all radio controlled racing is this way.

3. The meeting that took place last saturday had to be called for a very important issue that had happended the week before and had to take place.

4. MOST IMPORTANT - The club has an issue with comments made towards other racers or marshalls during race meetings. I know we all get upset sometimes but the committee will not tollerate this. I am aware of comments made on this forum, but guys we need to move on and ensure that we get along. Hinckley is a wonderful club with an excellent reputation. What do you think a new racer would think if they read this forum??? The reality is that this forum is NOT representative of our hobby or especially our club. I urge you to leave your negative thought as thought and instead us this forum to discuss things correctly.

I love my club and I know you all do to. Now children back to class or detention after school, your choice!!! (thought you would like that one! lol)

As always I am available for you should you have any issues:-

Your Chairman - Dale Knight - 07515 107092 dale.knight@btconnect.com

[blueskieshlg]

Hi all

I would just like to make a few comments on the remarks made by wacker 2 , or to show a little more respect I will call him Mr Seals. Mr Seals you might find this hard to believe but not everyone knows the yellow car going around the track and flying through the air at twice the speed that every one else is belongs to you.
I also find it hard to except how Mr Seals, you can justify using a 6.5 motor in a 1/12 heat design for motors with a maximum sizes of 19T/10.5 by telling us how good you are, and then suggest that the young lady now know to be called charlotte, who is running a perfectly legal size motor should not race in 1/12 because she is not experienced enough, I find this unbelievable, bearing in mind this is her the local car club and not the nationals. Mr Seals it seems that you have no time for people that are not as good as you say you are.
As for your remarks about respect, Mr Searls you disrespected everyone that attended the meeting that day, young and old by shouting obscenities from the rostrum.

Now no a brighter note

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A WEEK MAKES

This weeks 1/12 heats were fast, fun, exciting and a closely fought contest . Charlotte was excellent and it won’t be to long before she starts beating some of the others.