Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

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Hail Ming
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Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Hail Ming »

Ethos

The Hinckley Radio Controlled Car Club (HRCCC) Quick Silver Series is intended to be a low-cost fun racing class, primarily orientated towards newcomers to R/C racing as a feeder class for other touring car formulas. Notwithstanding this, Quick Silver also offers an alternative form of stock racing and welcomes the more experienced racer who accepts and abides by the philosophy of the series. In light of the above, the following rules are intended to be broad enough to allow a variety of touring car chassis types (from entry level to competition spec.) to compete with comparable performance at a level suitable for drivers of varying ability.

Rules

1. Any 27 turn, 540 sized, sealed, bronze bushed silver can motor without an internal fan is permitted – suitable examples include Mabuchi or Johnson brand motors marked with either RS-540SH, J or SF.
2. The motor must not be opened and/or the factory fixed timing tampered with in any way.
3. The burden of proof regarding compliance of a motor to Rules 1&2 above lies with the individual.
4. The use of comm. drops to aid motor performance is permitted.
5. The use of heat sinks and/or electric fans to cool the motor are permitted.
6. Any 1/10th scale electric touring car chassis with a maximum track width of 200mm is permitted.
7. Any commercially available body shell is permitted, provided the wheels, chassis and electrical components are contained within the confines of the body shell.
8. Holes made in the body shell to aid motor cooling are not permitted.
9. Body shells are to be painted and with indelible paint suitable for use on the body shell material. Bodies can be decorated with stickers to suit the individual’s taste (provided the decoration is non-offensive in nature).
10. Body shells are to remain securely fastened to the car at all times during a race.
11. No external bumpers are permitted; however the use of foam bumpers mounted to the front and/or rear of the chassis within the confines of the body shell are recommended.
12. The use of ‘Hop-Up’ chassis tuning parts are permitted.
13. The minimum ride height between the lowest point on the underneath of the chassis and the track is 5mm.
14. Only treaded or slick rubber compound 1/10th scale on-road touring car tyres are to be used.
15. The use of commercially available tyre additive is permitted provided it does not contain wintergreen chemicals.
16. Any radio gear conforming to UK law for surface use, operating on a frequency of either 27Mhz, 40Mhz or 2.4Ghz is permitted.
17. Only speed controllers with a reverse (which is demonstrated to be functioning at the beginning of a race, upon request by the Race Director) are permitted.
18. Only 7.2v Sub C sized NiCd/NiMH or the equivalent dimensioned 7.4v (2S) hard cased LiPo battery packs are permitted.
19. For safety reasons, battery packs are to be fitted with an electrical connector that can be disconnected quickly by a marshal if required during a race. For the avoidance of doubt – battery packs must not be hard wired to the speed controller.
20. Battery packs are to be charged in accordance with the manufacturer’s safety recommendations and at a current no higher than 5.0A.
21. Hand-out lap-counting transponders are to be securely fastened within the car by appropriate means.
22. The use of a personal lap-counting transponder is permitted.

Non compliance with the above rules may result in disqualification from a race meeting, or (in the event of safety breaches) permanent exclusion from racing at HRCCC.
Last edited by Hail Ming on Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Richie »

First impression the rules look over the top, but on reading them I think there fine.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by warr2 »

http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... rs_540rhsh

There are two versions of the Mabuchi RS540SH (6527 and 7520).

If you follow the above link and click on the motor model numbers it will give you a graph showing parameters, you can alter the voltage in the bottom corner to see the effects on torque efficiency etc. (Ignore the graphs on the page itself as one is for the RS540RH.)

6527 is designed for a higher maximum voltage of 9.6V and if you compare the statistics at 7.2V will be significantly slower on the track as it has less much less torque and rpm.

The most likely explanation for this i that at least 1 of the motors does not have 27 turns.

They definitely perform differently and as far as I can tell there is no way to tell the difference.


Agreed Richies'point about the rules seeming OTT.
However I'd also think about restricting weight if it were me writing them. Ignoring the potential to sae weight through upgrades, a typical nimh battery pack is around 420g. Josh is asking to go back racing after xmas, and one of the things I was considering was getting hold of some small Lipo packs intended for micro cars. - The reason being that a small battery is cheaper and should still have ample capacity for this class. - This will be over 300g lighter than if he was using a nimh pack. full size 3200 lipo stick is still only 20og lighter than a nimh.

That weight makes a difference when you're low on power.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Eddystone »

Interesting graphs there - I'm guessing ( EDIT- I GUESSED WRONG _ SEE POST BELOW!!) that our standard Mabuchi motors that come with Tamiya kits are the 7520 version as Tamiya ESCs are intended for use on 7.2volts so why would they include the higher voltage motor. As the 6527 is slower and less powerful at 7.2volts then I guess we don't need to worry about it as it's no benefit to run one. There may be a point with the batteries though - I know nothing of Lipo, but maybe there's an equivalent of requiring sub-C size NiMh cell packs that could be added to the rules if it is deemed necessary to restrict the use of these micro car packs.

Although the rules look a bit daunting at first impression I don't think they're OTT. I see them as an attempt at stopping over enthusiastic racers getting carried away with modifications to their cars. Quick Silver is meant to be a fun, inclusive type of racing. I see the rules as trying to keep the experienced racers cars close to the stock out of the box "Newbie" set-up that Joe Average will walk out of a model shop with this Christmas. Having been a new racer to this club myself earlier this year I can tell you that the other classes raced are enough to scare any newcomers away from the club for good. The other touring car classes have cars far removed from the Tamiya type cars most new racers own and unfortunately the Mardaves are a rather niche race car - great in their own right, but not much use anywhere but a flat track. Quick Silver class is to allow anybody to race their average hobby grade RC car with a fair degree of equality on the track. As such the rules are a great idea - they basically say "Simple stock Tamiya type kit set-up" I think the ethos behind the Quick Silver class has made it a great addition to the clubs racing and I believe has had a benefical effect on membership numbers in the club also. So the rules are a good thing as they've only been written to try and keep the class racing simple, fun, and easily accessible.

Richard
Last edited by Eddystone on Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by jayst »

blah blah blah . james thers no weight limit m8 . are we running touring car weight or would u like to set a weight limit
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Hail Ming »

Following on from Richard's post, although there are a number of rules this is necessary to cover all aspects of the car and running gear.

I've amended the battery rule to make it clear that it is Sub C (NiCd or NiMH) or the equivalent externally dimensioned LiPo pack.

In response to the motor comment - the 6527 type is the permitted variant (the code means 0.65mm copper wire wound 27 times) which is the type included in Tamiya kits. Notwithstanding the above, the issue is covered by Rule 3.

Finally on the issue of weight limit - can someone tell me what the BRCA 1/10 electric touring car limit currently is?

Thanks

James
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Richie »

I think the new weight linit is 1350g on the touring cars, but why on a standard chassis do we need that !

I thought this was supposed to be simple fun racing, now I see I can only use a 6527 type motor (what on earth is one of those and how do you ever control it when there is no identification on the motor itself) and I'm now supposed to ensure its not over weight. Well just for the record I'm running a standard TT01 with a 5000 lipo cell and no way am I putting it on a set of scales. I don't know what it weighs and I don't care. I plan to continue racing it at JCC, if someone tells me I can't because its under weight then I will simply race something or somewhere else.

Think its about time I got the Mardave back out.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Eddystone »

Don't panic Richie, I think you'll be OK! Quick Silver is meant to be simple, fun, entry level racing. The rules are only there to try and to keep it that way. Don't go doing anything rash as you are a valued racer in this class. Although they may appear OTT it's good to have the ground rules laid out as now we can get on with enjoying the evenly matched racing. It would be nice if rules weren't needed at all - but these guidelines are needed so when visitors to the club join us to race in this class they can feel they are competing on an even field.

See you Saturday - now put that Mardave back in the loft!

Richard
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Hail Ming »

Rich,

I was going to respond, but Richard got there first and has hit the nail on the head - there's nothing to worry about with the rules.

Just out of interest I weighed my TT01E (which is pretty much kit spec) with a LiPo pack - it was 77g heavier than the BRCA touring car limit of 1350g. I don't think we need to worry about weight, but I'm happy to include a weight liit of 1350g if it helps to reinforce the spirit of the class.

Cheers

James
Last edited by Hail Ming on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Eddystone »

My lardy old TL-01 race car should really go on a diet then - it weighs 1600g ready to race!!
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Dale »

I think the rules offer a base as more people strat to take part (which is what is happening) then we need to make sure you all keep it pure and what it is all about.

The motor for me is the difference and I am currently working with Ming to get some in stock from the club.

I completely understand where Mr Wilson is coming from as it is all about having fun etc, but remember to keep it that way these sorts of things are needed to build on a correct foundation.

Regards Dale
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by stox217 »

The rules look good not over the top.
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by Biggus Ditchus »

Hail Ming wrote:Rich,

I was going to respond, but Richard got there first and has hit the nail on the head - there's nothing to worry about with the rules.

Just out of interest I weighed my TT01E (which is pretty much kit spec) with a LiPo pack - it was 77g heavier than the BRCA touring car limit of 1350g. I don't think we need to worry about weight, but I'm happy to include a weight liit of 1350g if it helps to reinforce the spirit of the class.

Cheers

James
Again as an outsider to the club my apologies for my view but I would set a limit to help the guys running TT01's, TB01's, TL01's etc as they generally weigh a ton, compare that against something like a TRF415 :oops: which will be considerably lighter the advantage could be bigger especially when running a motor with so little power. Obviously thats just my opinion
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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by nick »

following a rather large break from racing after the summer buggy season (but having raced TT01E's before) i was considering having a go in this class. having read the rules they all look good except for rule 6 allowing any 1/10th TC chassis into the class. i know from experience that even my well set up TT01E is not comparable to another more 'race oriented' chassis irrespective of motor/batteries etc etc and in my opinion makes it a non-starter. whilst i understand that driver skill is the most important factor, not starting from a relatively level playing field as far as chassis's go makes the whole thing less attractive.

surely, if the point of the class is to allow a new driver to turn up with a bog-standard car and race against comparable equipment then i cannot understand rule 6 at all. it all seems rather contradictory and has the potential to turn into a version of the other classes which, unless i've got the wrong end of the stick, is not how it was conceived.

just my 2p's worth and merely an observation....i understand how difficult it is to come up with a set of rules that satisfy everyone (for difficult, read 'impossible')

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Re: Clarification of the Quick Silver Series Rules

Post by dogpinkscot »

hi nick i think the rule is ok as it allows people to use cars they already have making it a cheap credit crunch bustin class ......get your tamiya out and have a go saturday ....there are plenty tt01 cars rich wilson james carrol and my james all absolutely fly every week hopefully craig nutting will be racing his yoke this week and young zak with his mi3 should be a really good heat if you can come along nick ..... top tip gearing 25/55 for hinckley mate ... :wink:
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