[POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

The brushless class

ESC for under £70, 13.5T Motor for under £40
4
25%
ESC under £70, Mardave Motor (£40)
1
6%
ESC under £70, Any motor but no less than one equivalent to 13.5T for under £40
2
13%
Other (please comment)
9
56%
 
Total votes: 16

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stox217
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by stox217 »

yes i think
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Rich »

Just to clarify for those who have jumped in on the thread and obviously not read it properly:

The idea of this thread was to DISCUSS possible options for the rules in more depth as we only had limited time to do this at the meeting. Yes there was a vote, but there were people who still wern't happy (half the people didn't even vote!). I wasn't expecting anyone to rush out and buy a new system at all. Currently the rules stand as they are and would only be changed with the approval of the committee.

Agree with Martyn, this is getting blown out of proportion for something that should be simple. It's fair enough saying run the mardave motor with a speedo under £70, but nobody has tried this! The motor was only 'approved' because some people commented that they THOUGHT the mardave motor was ok but the esc was rubbish.

So Mark will be trying another esc with the mardave brushless motor at some point and Gazza will be running his system, so we'll see how that goes?
Last edited by Rich on Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Last edited by Gazza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Last edited by Gazza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Martyn »

I just don’t understand why you guys feel the need to keep putting price limits on equipment. How many people are using a radio gear over £200 to pilot their £85 VRX chassis??? Its all well saying its to keep the class standardised, but doesn’t stop Mr/Mrs X from buying the best matched batteries, which in my experience influences speed more than an expensive speed controller would.

If you hard core mardave drivers want to go brushless then so be it, just have a heat to your selves with open speedo rules, run a 13.5T (540) or the mardave brushless motor and let the class sort it’s self out.

Forget the rules for a club championship, get out there and race and do some constructive testing for a brushless championship next season.

That’s all I have to say on this ever on going topic!

Martyn
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Rich »

That's a valid point, cells do make a hell of a difference and there's no restrictions on those. It's just where to draw the line, as otherwise apart from the chassis and tyres, it's going to become as expensive as touring cars to be competitive!

It's a question of the difference in performance between something like the LRP eraser motor that Gazza has bought, and a 75 quid Novak Pro, which I'm guessing would be quite a bit.

Personally I'd be happier going for the losi combo, which is £130 but offers forwards/brake/reverse rather than just forwards/reverse that the LRP and nosram systems offer (so it seems). It's also supposed to be quick and reliable.

I think it's too early to jump into a brushless class considering the problems everyone's been having lately. I'm just going to compete with the G2 motor (as much as I despise them lol) as at the rate things have been going it's going to be a few weeks before anything is sorted, and the championship is only around 4 months long.

This time can be used to test the options mentioned, and have the rules properly sorted for the winter championship. Plus it's hardly fair to change the rules halfway through the championship for those who are running the mardave brushless motor.
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Last edited by Gazza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Martyn »

Well maybe a little bit more...
Rich wrote:It's a question of the difference in performance between something like the LRP eraser motor that Gazza has bought, and a 75 quid Novak Pro, which I'm guessing would be quite a bit.
Unfortunately Rich that is something you will need to find out for your selves until brushless in mardave becomes more established and you have the knowledge base like we do in touring. Dean has already proved a top of the line LRP speedo and motor was no quicker than Zacs brushed G2, but he might argue his car wasn't handling as it should! So thats a start at least.

The LPR Eraser would have a "bonded" rotor, where as the Novak has a "sintered" rotor which offers better performance due to the quality of the rotor magnet. Whether there would be performance difference running them at 4.8v in a mardave I just don’t know?

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Last edited by Gazza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Rich »

Martyn: Personally I'd probably be looking at this sort of motor because it means you could move over to touring cars in the future and still be competitive. With the cheaper brushless motors I don't think you would. A few others may be thinking along these lines too and also you've got the likes of Dean and Zak who already have 13.5T's from their touring cars that are of a similar spec.

Gazza: IIRC bonded rotors do not deal with heat as well as sintered rotors because the heat causes the rotor to loose some of its magnetism. I'm not sure if there are any other reasons for a performance difference.
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Martyn »

Courtesy of Gary Kirkpatrick...

I think the main difference is that in a sintered rotor the magnet starts life as powdered metal (sintering is a method of molding powdered materials) so that the whole rotor, when formed around the shaft is made from magnetic material (typically Neodymium). I’m not sure if the powder is magnetized before or after forming around the shaft though or how this is done…

I’ve never seen a bonded rotor properly but I’d imagine it’s made of slices of magnets embedded in some sort of plastic / epoxy resin around the shaft. The whole rotor is thus not made from magnetic material which causes lower performance vs a sintered rotor. I guess excessive temperatures can also cause the plastic / epoxy to melt and the rotor to disintegrate – this used to be a big problem in early bonded modified motors (I think)…
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by zak.finlay »

Gary you have a pm

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Last edited by Gazza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by Wacker1 »

I think that Martyn has made some really good points!........& I totally agree with him! 8)

Like I've said before, if Racers want a Brushless Mardave Heat, then they should be allowed to choose ANY Brushless Speedo with Reverse & ANY 13.5T Motor.........so if Rich would like to buy himself a Losi Combo, let him!

99% of Brushless Motors have 'Sintered' Rotors now, so obviously, the Manufacturers have found these to be slightly better than the 'Bonded' type Rotor.......more for Longer life than Performance I think though.

I ran an LRP Vector X11 6.5T Motor in my 2WD Buggy in the Hinckley Clubs Summer Off-Road Series last year, which was FAST & RELIABLE.........this had a 'BONDED' Rotor in it. Towards the middle of the Season, I decided to upgrade to an Orion Vortex 6.5T Motor, cause it had a 'SINTERED' Rotor in it................I was abit disappointed, as it WAS'NT any faster than the Bonded LRP!

If you buy a Nosram or LRP 13.5T, that still has a 'Bonded' Rotor in it, you can buy a replacement 'Sintered' Rotor for them, which are around £20.

As for problems, I really dont think that anyone will, if it goes down the Sensored Speedo/13.5T route.
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Re: [POLL ADDED] The mardave championship discussion...

Post by dogpinkscot »

bla bla bla bla deee blaaaa can i run a nitro indoors if i promised not to rev it too loud ? cheers :roll:
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