Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Stock and Modified

Which Touring Car Class would you want ro run after Christmas (Winter 2011 season)?

10.5 with on-the-fly timing advance/turbo
0
No votes
13.5 with on-the-fly timing advance/turbo
6
32%
13.5 with NO timing advance/turbo (New BRCA class)
5
26%
17.5 with NO timing advance/turbo (New BRCA class)
8
42%
 
Total votes: 19

User avatar
Ian_Smith
Committee
Committee
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:57 pm
Name: Ian Smith
Car: Schumacher Mi4LP
Location: Earl Shilton

Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Ian_Smith »

HRCCC are keen to adopt the new BRCA Clubman classes for Touring Cars after Christmas, with this in mind I thought it would be a good idea to gauge interest in the classes to find out what people wanted to race.

The choices as I see them are :
10.5 with on-the-fly timing advance/turbo (as per current championship)
13.5 with on-the-fly timing advance/turbo (as per current championship)
13.5 with NO on-the-fly timing advance/turbo (New BRCA zero timing class)
17.5 with NO on-the-fly timing advance/turbo (New BRCA Clubman zero timing class)

The 13.5 class with No timing advance may not be as proposed by BRCA, if I'm honest I got a little confused as to what was proposed at the AGM and what wasn't, but I thought I'd put it up as a valid choice.
Schumacher Mi4LP / Hobbywing Justock / Speed Passion V3.0 17.5
"Speed is nothing without Control" - wish I had just one of 'em! :-)
DazLee
Experienced Member
Experienced Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:49 pm
Name: Darren Lee

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by DazLee »

Hi Ian,

Have these 'New BRCA Classes' now been decided and clarified?

I know they were proposed but have no idea when the AGM was / is and was not sure if they were now 'set in stone'.

Providing they are now 'final' I am happy to put my vote to 13.5t no timing. I plan to attempt to do the nationals again in 2011 and wouldnt want to have to swap speedos / motors out every time I wanted to do an outdoor meeting.

Thanks
Darren
User avatar
Ian_Smith
Committee
Committee
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:57 pm
Name: Ian Smith
Car: Schumacher Mi4LP
Location: Earl Shilton

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Ian_Smith »

Darren,

I e-mailed Roger because of my own doubt about the proposed 13.5t class, his response (which I hope he won't mind me sharing) is below :

Ian,
My thoughts on the HRCCC club classes for touring cars going forward are:
10.5t as stands
13.5t as stands
17.5t, classified as STOCK TOURING with non advance, fixed timing spedo’s
Quicksilver, as stands

This should then give us a complete range of touring car classes with two for ‘competition’ focussed racers (10.5t and 13.5t) which fits in with most clubs at the present time, whilst allowing the club to develop along with the proposed Stock class.
You are quite correct with your comments surrounding the BRCA 13.5t stock class; this is currently being debated by the [BRCA] committee with a view to establish the rules ready for next year’s clubman’s championship.
How does this sound to you?

Roger


Obviously, as a club we aim to cater for what our members want to race, but my own view is that indoors 10.5 (with timing advance) is probably on the limit of being too quick, and the speeds possible with 13.5 with timing advance is not too far behind 10.5. I'd like to think that in this current series I've shown what 17.5 without a bells and whistles ESC is capable of - it's certainly improved my driving and really only lose out down the straights but is much more controllable in the infield (for me at least) :lol:
Schumacher Mi4LP / Hobbywing Justock / Speed Passion V3.0 17.5
"Speed is nothing without Control" - wish I had just one of 'em! :-)
John74
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:14 pm
Name: John Davie
Car: Corally PHi 09

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by John74 »

Never raced indoors with a touring car before but do race 17.5 at bedworth so would be interested in coming down and racing in the dry during the winter. The speedo i use does not have a flashing blue light so show it's on the zero advane mode but will be more than happy to let people check the profile setting is on mode one for zero advance.
chris.forrest
Getting started
Getting started
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:45 pm

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by chris.forrest »

Ian
You might be intrested in the "ROAR approved Sportsman ESC's" list. These are speedcontrollers that have been certified for use in the Sportsman class and have no turbo or advanced timing when tha appropriate profile is selected. http://www.roarracing.com/?page_id=737. Do we know if the BRCA will publish an equivalent list for there proposed class? Chris
Martyn
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:53 pm
Name: Martyn Ross
Car: XRAY T4 14

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Martyn »

Hi All,

After Saturdays turn out :shock: i guess you can strike 10.5t off the list!

I'm happy to drop back down to 13.5 with or with out timing advance for season part two. Think the most important thing for the club, is we take some of the speed away, and bring back closer competitive racing. Which makes it good fun for us drivers, also for spectators to. How much fun was watching three 10.5t going round the track :?

So the touring classes i see for next season are Quick Silver and 13.5t. Just need to decided whether the 13.5t people are to take the step and switch off the advanced timing???

Martyn
User avatar
Wacker1
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:28 pm
Name: Dean Gibbs(Wacker1)
Car: Yoke BD8 17. YZ-2CA
Location: Hinckley

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Wacker1 »

Hi all,

I'm also happy to drop back down to 13.5, if thats what the Majority want to do! 8)

..........the current 13.5 Touring Class at HRCCC generally has 2-3 Full Heats of Drivers every week, which makes the Racing very Competitive & the Qualifyings Rounds more worthwhile!

As the Numbers have dwindled in 10.5 over recent weeks, it seems like its inevitable to make the move back to 13.5 in the New Year! :)

I shall be doing 13.5 with Advanced Timing for the first time, at Hinckley Clubs Last Meeting of the Year - this Saturday : 18th Dec

I know that 13.5/Turbo does'nt seem to Appear to be much Slower than 10.5/Turbo, but I'd be intrested to feel the Comparison on Saturday

.........from Memory of Racing 13.5/Zero Timing(before the 1st Gen Timing LRP SPX StockSpec & Nosram Spec Racing Speedos)a year or 2 ago, it just seems abit too far the other way.i.e - Slow - but as I said, I'll go with what everyone else wants! 8)

Dean.
DerbyDan
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:26 pm
Name: Dan Wooster
Car: Corally Phi

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by DerbyDan »

Hi guys, my first post on here :D

I'm watching the developments regarding the TC classes closely, as either way it looks like I'll probably need to buy a new motor.... i'm currently using a Hacker with a Black Diamond TA speedo in 13.5, but since the motor is set at zero degrees of fixed timing... i'm starting to feel that i'm losing out to those with both timing advance/turbo esc & advanced timed motors. However I was considering moving 'up' a class & have a play with the 10.5 guys... but as yet, I don't own a 10.5 motor :|

My personal veiw is that the current classes are set about right.... especially considering the decreased numbers that are racing compared to previous seasons... Silvercan gives a good introduction to the touring car class, giving a level playing field, & where cars are not too fast for the beginner racer. The 13.5 class gives the relative step up from silver can - the cars even with turbo/advance speedos etc still have to be driven cleanly & with an eye on maintaining momentum to get a quick time. The 10.5 class I think is now on a par (almost) with the old brushed mod class, where the skill is in containing all the power, keeping it smooth & neat round the bends & using all that power to gain the extra few tenths over the 13.5 guys down the straight.

The question is I guess, whether the jump from silvercan to 13.5 is too big for an up & coming racing & should there be something in-between at the cost of 10.5?.... a 17.5 class with non-turbo speedos maybe?

If the 10.5 class was axed as the 'premier class' then I would like to see the timing advance speedos still being allowed in 13.5 - as without these, the cars for an experienced racer can feel slow, to me, it just feels like a backward step to have all the technical advantages that the brushless revolution has given us, to be tied back to where we were with the old 27t stock class :?

The danger is that you end up with loads of classes with hardly any racers competing in each - i've seen this first hand at the Milton Keynes club. In this situation you often just get the same couple of guys that win each week & the interest is soon lost & the class is dropped... as a club you can only hope that this racer moves to a different more challenging/interesting class
DazLee
Experienced Member
Experienced Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:49 pm
Name: Darren Lee

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by DazLee »

Hi all,

After the turn out on Saturday of 10.5t entrants (As Martyn and Dean have mentioned) I have decided to make the step into the 13.5t class to give that a whirl.

I think the point Dan has mde about the cars feeling slow if we abandon advance timing is a very good one. I like the speed with the advance timing and I know I will be a little disappointed if we all go to zero timing.

That said, I dont want to race in a class of just 3 people and spend all day qualifying for 10ft on the track.....as it was on saturday. I will therefore happily follow what the majority wants to do.

But, please think very carefully before abandoning advance timing......we may end up losing members / racers if the classes are made too slow.
A lot of people race at other events (Ardent, Rug Racers, Carpet Wars etc...) and we may put our members at a disadvantage as these evnts may still run timing advance.......and we will lack practice at these higher speeds.

Thanks
Daz
Richie
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:11 pm
Name: Richard Wilson
Location: Bedworth

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Richie »

Hi All

Just reading this with interest. Unless you ban turbo speedos I think your going to struggle to control this. Don't forget most Turbos speedos have multiple settings and in a competitive sport I feel someone will want to gain a small edge. Your club has a very open and friendly atmosphere I think this could be easily abused and lead to discontent. It would be easier to control the motor turn limit and let technology take its course.

I think what the questionaire shows is people want a level playing field. Out of interest does anyone know approx what percentage of people use a turbo speedo at hinckley ?
treasurer
Treasurer
Treasurer
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:03 pm
Name: Roger Cosgrove

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by treasurer »

Some clarification..............

There are no proposals to 'ban' any speed controllers. It seems that the debate is very healthy so far, I am looking forward to seeing 13.5t racing using the same open speed controller technology as we currently use, and perhaps more importantly, a new 17.5t controlled speedo class. the 10.5t class may lose its identity and become 'open touring' which will incorporate any turn of motor?

Roger
User avatar
Ian_Smith
Committee
Committee
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:57 pm
Name: Ian Smith
Car: Schumacher Mi4LP
Location: Earl Shilton

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Ian_Smith »

Richie wrote:Hi All

Just reading this with interest. Unless you ban turbo speedos I think your going to struggle to control this. Don't forget most Turbos speedos have multiple settings and in a competitive sport I feel someone will want to gain a small edge. Your club has a very open and friendly atmosphere I think this could be easily abused and lead to discontent. It would be easier to control the motor turn limit and let technology take its course.

I think what the questionaire shows is people want a level playing field. Out of interest does anyone know approx what percentage of people use a turbo speedo at hinckley ?
Richard,

This current series (which ends on Saturday) has seen almost everyone running 13.5 run NG speedos with timing advance, the 3 exceptions that I am aware of are Chris Child, Nick Halfpenny (both 13.5) and myself (17.5 - I wanted to try to promote interest in a 17.5 stock class that I was aware that the BRCA were considering introducing at their AGM, and also to try to identify how much slower it would be than the usual 13.5 both with / without timing advance). In essence I intended using 17.5 for just the first 2 weeks indoors as an experiment, but in reality found that I was not that much slower over a complete lap than those I consider to be a similar ability to myself (obviously I get slaughtered down the straights but the car control that I have at the slower speed allows me to make some of that back up in the infield) so never swapped back to the 13.5.

Racing with an under-powered car has been great fun, the only down side is getting the occasional bump at the back on the fast sections. But creating a gap then trying to hold tight lines so that the faster car behind can't get by is to be highly recommended :D

Ian
Schumacher Mi4LP / Hobbywing Justock / Speed Passion V3.0 17.5
"Speed is nothing without Control" - wish I had just one of 'em! :-)
Richie
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:11 pm
Name: Richard Wilson
Location: Bedworth

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Richie »

Sorry Guys, I don't know what an "NG Speedo" is, perhaps someone could explain, but if most are running turbo speedos and you want to restrict their performance surely you need to determine a setting which is comparible to a non turbo speedo set wide open. Because I think I'm correct even non turbo speedo operates some level of timing advance, its just not dynamic i.e. the timing is fixed and doesn't advance with motor RPM.

For information I have been running a 17.5t brushless at Rugby with a non turbo speedo in a touring car, in the hope I can conquer my phobia of touring cars with rubber tyres. I just don't know how you get these things to grip, rugby is smaller than Hinckley, but on a small track I still have more than enough power and so agree with your concept Ian, just unsure of the practicality. Take Care Richard
jayst
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 8:52 pm
Name: jamie cheshire
Car: T D . 210,410.408

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by jayst »

y dont u run 2 class's

17.5 with no timing

13.5 with turbo
Richie
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:11 pm
Name: Richard Wilson
Location: Bedworth

Re: Winter 2011 Series : What Classes

Post by Richie »

Hi Jamie

If you read Rogers post above. I think thats the intention
Post Reply